And Why This Academic Research May Surprise You…
In this week’s podcast episode, Elizabeth chats with Penny Dick, an academic at Sheffield University, and Emma Shute, a coach with Women to Work, a small business that runs workshops and one-to-ones for primarily women within organisations.
Penny and Emma recently collaborated on a study in which they interviewed 28 women over a three-year period to learn about their feelings about their lives and careers and whether their experiences align with academic research on the topic. Elizabeth is eager to hear more about the insights they gained from these conversations.
Penny has worked on various projects with Emma and Emma’s business partner, Jenny, for over twenty years. When Penny presented a critical perspective on aspects of academic literature at a University Seminar that resonated with Jenny and Emma, they decided to explore women and careers further.
Penny, Emma, and Jenny had extended conversations over the years about how the feminist and academic literature on women’s careers did not align with their own experiences and those of other women they had met.
Penny is in the process of producing academic publications based on the research conducted with Emma and Jenny. They have written an article to be published in January 2023 and have also formed a community of practice based on the research. This group includes some women who participated in the research and others who have joined since.
The goal is to spread the message that what women actually want from work may not align with societal expectations, and to find ways to communicate the skills and value of women and the work they do to organisations and others in a more structured, academic way. Please stay tuned to get more insight.
Key Highlights
[00:01:52] Introduction to today’s guests: Penny and Emma
[00:02:59] Penny and Emma’s study
[00:05:22] The difference between men and women with age
[00:06:07] What the academic research says about how women feel about careers and their lives
[00:07:37] The format of the research
[00:08:37] Commonality of being undervalued as women
[00:12:15] Does patriarchy affect the value of women in society?
[00:13:07] How women from different cultures compare
[00:14:06] What is preventing women from climbing the career ladder?
[00:16:42] Does taking into account the unpaid care work, predominantly done by women, in GDP calculations help them feel more appreciated and valued?
[00:19:19] What would help women be happier and fulfil their potential?
[00:22:56] Is hybrid working better than traditional 9 to 5 long-term?
[00:26:01] How confident are you about women’s well-being, happiness, and life satisfaction in future generations?
[00:28:35] Would it be helpful to move away from labelling skills as hard or soft?
[00:31:15] What’s next for the study?
[00:35:57] Where to find Penny and Emma
[00:36:32] What is the practice?
Notable Quotes
● Often, as women, we don’t take the time to stop and think about what’s going on for us. The workshop provides an opportunity to take a step back and reflect on what’s happening in our lives. It encourages us to question and consider what transition we are currently experiencing, what we want our lives to look like, and what is important and meaningful to us.
● The problem for many women is the challenge of balancing their desire for a successful career with the responsibilities of raising children. This stereotype can be frustrating as it doesn’t accurately represent the diverse aspirations and goals of women.
● We found in the data that when women had negative experiences, such as bullying or a traumatic event, it often changed their career path. Our analysis revealed that these difficult experiences led many women to re-evaluate their goals and life direction.
● We judge whether we’re achieving gender equality by looking at the numbers of women in different roles, and it’s irrelevant.
● An organisation can create lots of money for its shareholders and destroy the environment – and the lives of the people working within it at the very same time.
● There’s really got to be a shift in the world about what a contribution is in society because, as we’ve talked about, it’s narrowly economic, and women’s contributions, unfortunately, continue to be undervalued throughout everything, including child-raising.
● I’m hoping the next generation of women will fight their ground and say, “If you don’t recognise what I’ve gotten or who I am, then that really is your loss.”
● The kind of cultural stories and narratives that exist about women in work aren’t positive. It’s always a kind of harassed mother with several children trying to be really good at her job and not quite succeeding, and those narratives aren’t helpful.
● There are stories about women who reject the notion that work should be the central focus of their lives. This does not mean that they are not productive or making valuable contributions. It simply means that work is not the primary focus of their lives. And this is a positive choice, not a negative one.
Show Links
Work It Like A Mum Podcast:
Apple Podcast: Apple Podcast
Spotify: Spotify
To connect with Elizabeth:
Facebook: Facebook
LinkedIn: LinkedIn
Investing in Women Flexible Working Job Board and Recruitment Site
To connect with Emma:
LinkedIn: LinkedIn
Women to Work website: https://www.womentowork.co.uk/
To connect with Penny:
LinkedIn: LinkedIn
Sheffield University website: Penny Dick